Friday, April 18, 2008
Why Ron Paul Scares The GOP
In the interest of wide-ranging open discussion about our party and our politics here's an article I got from a Ron Paul supporter. It's worth reading.
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25 comments:
Good article. Ive never really thought about it that way before.
Ron Paul doesn't scare me, his True Believers scare me.
He's wrong in so many ways. Among them are foreign policy and his extreme, incorrect view of the constitution.
The "America First" movement of the early 20th century should be a lesson for all of us. Ron Paul and his supporters are this generations America First believers. They want to ignore the rest of the world and act only when someone actual physically touches our borders.
The problem with that is it leaves us with terrorists like those who did 9/11. It leaves Iran to do as they please. It leaves Israel open to attack.
Of course, they don't care about Israel - just ask them. They believe Iran has the right to nukes because we have them. And most of them believe 9/11 was an "inside job". All of those don't just scare me, they show Ronbots to be ignorance and gullible.
They're also very much "brown shirt" like believers. If Ron Paul ever took over his believers are so devoted that they're rabid. They would force their views of America on all of us and those who don't believe as they do would be "encouraged" (by force) to do so. In their grand conspiratorial views of our country and planet they'd enforce their views to the detriment of those who dare to disagree, even mainstream conservatives like me.
Ron Paul doesn't belong in the Republican Party, he's a Libertarian. Go back to where you belong and take your band of true believers with you.
[i]"There used to be an organization for people who believed in a truly limited government — limited taxes, limited spending, limited interference in individual lives and limited intervention in foreign affairs."[/i]
Thats what its all about! Its too bad that we as a party feel a true conservative is no longer electable!
I agree with the second commenter here.
It is not Ron Paul that scares most of us. The attitude of his followers with the extreme view of "America First" and the "unconstitutional war" along with archaic notion of "return us to the gold standard" (solid, but hardly growth oriented) combined with their shrill condemnation of anyone not on 'their' side, particularly anyone in leadership (and anyone else they even perceive as unconvinced)is frightening.
On top of all that, they have an idignation when they lose or are caught in a lack of personal integrity that makes one wonder, "are you deluded?"
What will happen after Ron Paul has his say at the GOP convention and then formally quits?? While the strict adherence to principle is admirable, these kind of divisive antics and attitudes will do nothing to actually bring about change.
By making the argument without inspiration (shining city on the hill comes to mind) will do nothing but give the RINO's more of the attitude that they don't really need real conservatives because you will lose with this argument and they may still win. You will lose a very valuable commodity (access).
Why not try something different, like engaging those that are not part of the meetup (or carefully controlled email list) in an actual inspiring conversation of vision that will motivate ALL conservatives, not just the 10-25% of those willing to go with the 2% that are the wacko libertarians (like Christine, the athiest in the Minneapolis group).
To the first anonymous poster (2nd poster): You love to prejudge people, don't you? Sure, there are nuts that support Ron Paul, but there are also people who simply believe that we, as a party and a country, need to follow the limited government approach set forth by the constitution. Not all Ron Paul supporters, including myself, say that Iran has a right to nukes. Neither do we not "care about Israel." Actually, I believe that we hold Israel back and that without our interference, Israel might actually resolve some of the problems in the region.
More to come . . .
Former Israeli Prime Minister and current leader of the opposition Benjamin Netanyahu has stated during a speech that the 9/11 attacks were a good thing for Israel.
Israel's Ma'ariv newspaper reported that Netanyahu, leader of the Likud party, told an assembly at Bar Ilan university:
"We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq."
Thousands of dead Americans and millions more slaughtered Iraqis, along with a war torn and divided country is beneficial to Israel, according to Mr Netanyahu.
The newspaper also reported he later added that the events "swung American public opinion in our favor."
In a display of utter disrespect, the staunch Zionist is reported to have made the comments at the conference on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.
Netanyahu's comments echo a previous statement he made on the very day of 9/11, as reported in the New York Times, September 12th:
Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied: “It's very good.”
Then he edited himself: “Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.”
Netanyahu has strong ties with leading American Neoconservatives such as PNAC signatory Richard Perle, former Pentagon official Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, former Middle East Adviser to US Vice President Dick Cheney.
In 2002 these men, as representatives of right wing think tank The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies, authored a paper entitled A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, for the purpose of advising Netanyahu on how to "engage every possible energy on rebuilding Zionism."
The document urged Israel to aggressively seek the downfall of their Arab neighbors by exploiting the inherent tensions within and among the Arab States. The first step was the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
The paper suggested that “Israel will not only contain its foes; it will transcend them,” postulating that a war with Iraq would destabilize the entire Middle East, allowing governments in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, and other countries to be replaced.
In other developments today, the Iranian leader President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has once again questioned the official version of events surrounding 9/11.
"Four or five years ago, a suspicious event occurred in New York. A building collapsed and they said that 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names," Ahmadinejad is reported to have said.
In a speech broadcast live on state television, Ahmadinejad called the attack a pretext that was used to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.
Though it remains to be seen whether Ahmadinejad's comments have once again been mistranslated or taken out of context, it is expected that they will be seized upon by those seeking to demonize the 9/11 truth movement, which has recently gained increased publicity via endorsements from notable public figures such as former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura and legendary American singer Willie Nelson.
Unlike Ahmadinejad, activists within the 9/11 truth movement have never questioned the death toll resulting from the attacks, which is a patently ludicrous thing to do, and have worked closely with first responders groups, such as the Feal Good Foundation, and victims families groups, such as the Coalition of 9/11 Families, in order to push for a new investigation.
'In an era of growing individual choice, personality politics will become ever more dominant. Rather than a party putting forward a candidate, John McCain has taken over the Republican Party and it appears that Barack Obama may wrest control of the Democratic Party from the Clintons.' (from an article on RealClearPolitics)
Apparently in November, we get a choice of 2 liberals. God help us.
[quote][i]"There used to be an organization for people who believed in a truly limited government — limited taxes, limited spending, limited interference in individual lives and limited intervention in foreign affairs."[/i]
[/quote]
It's called the John Birch Society. JBS.org
I think the Paulites are just an extreme version of what too many Republicans have become, the "principle over party" wing. One admires their idealism, of wanting a "better" conservative in office, but questions their sanity at believing that wishing makes it so. If we had enough "good conservatives" running for office (which we do not) and if we worked like crazy-- all of us-- to get them elected, we might make some progress. Unless these purists want to compromise a bit for the sake of getting the half a loaf, we're doomed to have crumbs.
J. Ewing
In response to anonymous who is scared of Paul's foreign policy.
Have supporters for the war on terror ever heard of the term Blow Back? Our government imposing its will on others has consequences. We overthrow an elected leader of Iran in 1953 and install the Shah as dictator. In 1979 we have the reaction to it with the hostage crisis.
During the 1990s we have bases in Saudi,no fly zones over Iraq and embargoes that hurt the people. Guess what we get in return? We get enemies. Some people don't appreciate our armies on their soil.
We either adopt a non interventionist policy or curse our children to never ending war.
The Swiss children have not fought a war since the early 1800s. Is that not what conservatives want for their children?
Does anyone know how Ron Paul did in the 3rd district and 7th district conventions this past weekend?
to libertyfirst...
Yes, Blow back needs to be of concern, however the type of policy that Congressman Paul advocates is what led to the Japanese empire attack at Pearl Harbor and the near takeover in Europe (all except Great Britain) by Nazi Germany. Please do more research to understand our foe. Once their takeover of the rest of the world is complete, we will be next. This is the MOST IMPORTANT issue of our time!
Every time I see one of these 9/11 truth comments on a Ron Paul post, I consider quitting. That means throwing out an entire year of my life and the tens of thousands of dollars I've lost by not taking a salary during that time. (For the record, I'm the state coordinator for Ron Paul.)
But these posts have got to be a hoax, a McCain supporter out there trying to make us look foolish. A real supporter wouldn't jeopardize our movement back toward the Constitution that way. I'm sure of it.
I am a Paul supporter from the McLeod/Meeker county group. We have been quite successful at transforming the thinking of many locals. We hope to do that state wide. Time may be on our side.
At the 7th distirct convention we handed out a flyer that showed how much the GOP has lost since 03.
If the party continues in its abuse of individual liberties, growing budgets, undeclared wars and nation building there will not be much party left to transform.
The 2nd poster is getting tiresome with all of the libertarian business, our Wright Co group of Paul supporters scratches its collective head, looks around for those among us with a libertarian party past, and comes up empty in that regard as far as we can tell, though we certainly wouldn't turn an ex-libertarian away, there is plenty of overlap. In fact it can be truthfully said that the Republican Party is a party of libertarian values, small, inexpensive government, freedom & liberty- at least in principle. Furthermore the founding values of this country are all about liberty, unless I've been misreading the founding documents all along and somehow missed the possibility that they strove to build a nation of greater authoritarianism? I don't think that was what they had in mind, am I wrong?
Let the ardent authoritarians go back to where they belong, there is a NAZI party in this country, is there not?
Ken
Monticello
You love to prejudge people, don't you?
No sir, I'm not PRE-judging anyone, I am judging them based on lots of experience with them. These people have been self-righteous, they namecall those who don't buy their views (we're all "neocons" if we disagree with them - talk about "pre-judging), and they are naive about the world.
Scribbler:
The McCain supporters don't have to make the Ron Paul supporters look like tin-foil hat wearing, black helicopter fearing, blaming America first, conspiracy theorists.
The Ron Paul supporters do a good enough job of portraying themselves like that without any help from the McCain supporters.
As for the 3rd district and 7th district conventions, what were the results in the race for national delegates and alternates.
Oh, and Scribbler, unless someone held a gun to your head and forced you to become the Ron Paul state coordinator, spare us the whining.
Otherwise, one could say that Bill Clinton plays the sax, Huckabee plays the guitar, Obama plays the race card, and the Scribbler plays the victim.
Oh, please. Blaming Ronbot nutjobism on McCain supporters is idiotic. Ronbots, as a group, have enough nuts to form their own nut co-op, they don't need outside help.
The R3voLution continues:
Be afraid, RINOs, be very afraid...
Dr. Ron Paul Cured My Apathy!
Ron Paul is NOT a Republican, he's a Libertarian. Can't get enough votes himself to get things done, has followers try to hijack the Republican Party delegate by delegate. Won't work. Too much like a dictator and rabid followers too reminiscent of another era in history - the '30s.
Don't seem to much care that they're trying to get their way by lying and cheating and teaching their younger followers that that's the way to play the game. Whatever happened to truth and integrity??
Ron Paul has been elected to Congress ten times as a Republican.
Scribbler, if Ron Paul is such a good Republican, then how do you explain that his PAC has given money to Liberterian and other candidates who are running against GOP Senators and Members of Congress? Explain that one, will ya.
Here's hoping Drew might consider 1) allowing only non-anonymous comments and 2) real time commenting. If someone has to post their name, they're less likely to make statements most needing moderation. Just my humble suggestion. Responding to "anonymous," whether it's one repetitive poster or ten different people, is a little creepy.
Is Ron Paul giving money to genuine conservatives against liberal RINOs worse than McCain promoting and signing onto the legislation of Democrats?
Not sure you want to go down the road of who is a better Republican in this race.
Scribbler, thank you for all that you have done for all of us. The true republicans know that Ron Paul is the best choice for president. I am honored to be a supporter. It's true, some supporters might seem "nuts", but we aren't all like that!
Anonymous 4/18 2:29 p.m.
The America First movement of the early 20th century was, in my opinion, a very different situation than now. The most important, in my opinion, is that as we continue fighting the jihad their ability to recruit is enhanced. How are you correlating these two wars?
How do you interpret the constitution differently?
Why do you elevate the nation of Israel above all else?
Do you consider yourself a Christian? As a Christian I believe that god will destroy the world. I agree with you, I could care less if Iran has nukes. But not because we have them, but because they should be a sovereign nation.
There are a lot of coincidences when it comes to 911, that is a fact. Have you studied them?
Where do you get the notion presented in your 2nd to last paragraph? I am happy to enlighten you. The Ron Paul supporters don't want to force anything on anybody. We believe that people should be sovereign citizens, if you and others prefer some socialism you are free to organize yourselves and do whatever you want privately with your own $.
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